Don Quixote's Fictional Muse Comes to Life in Dulcinea by Ana Veciana-Suarez

Join me as I chat with Ana Veciana-Suarez, author of Dulcinea listed in the Literature category on Art In Fiction.

View the video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/BKX2HsA43_c

• Overview of the story of Dulcinea as being about a wealthy Barcelona woman called Dolça who is cast as the fictional muse of Miguel Cervantes
• Use of the dual-timeline narrative in the novel
• Ana's family background in Barcelona and its influence on her novel
• Why Cervantes? How the idea for the novel percolated for fifty years
• Research for Dulcinea and the benefits of visiting the areas where the novel takes place
• Spain in the 16th century: the constraints on women, the role of the church, and the tremendous civic power of the Inquisition
• Use of primary sources while researching Dulcinea
• Why Dolça is an artist, and the existence of female artists during the period
• How Dolça's relationship to her painting evolves in the novel as a result of her relationship with Cervantes
• The theme of Dulcinea
• Reading from Dulcinea
• Things that Ana learned from writing her novel
• What Ana is working on now

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Transcript

Carol Cram

Hello and welcome. I'm Carol Cram, host of The Art In Fiction podcast. This episode features Ana Veciana-Suarez, author of Dulcinea, listed in the Literature category on Art in Fiction. 

Ana is the author of several books, including The Chin Kiss King, which was nominated for the prestigious IMPAC award, an international competition in Dublin. Two of her nonfiction books about the Hispanic media were published by the Media Institute, a think tank in Washington, D. C. Her commentary has been included in several anthologies in addition to Reader's Digest, O Magazine, Woman's Day, The Washington Post Magazine, Parenting, and Latina.

Anna immigrated to Miami at the age of six and has five adult children, whom she likes to say have taught her immeasurable humility.

Welcome to The Art In Fiction Podcast, Ana. 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Thank you for having me. 

Carol Cram

Well, it's my pleasure. I so enjoyed Dulcinea. It tells the story of Dulce, the fictional muse behind Don Quixote. So, first off, can you describe the story? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

So, this is the story of a woman, a fictional woman, whom I imagine to be the fictional muse of Miguel Cervantes. She's a wealthy lady from Barcelona. They meet and they have this star-crossed love affair. And when he's on his deathbed, he writes her a note and asks her to come from Barcelona to Madrid so he can see her one last time.

And so, the story is a dual timeline, same person, kind of now and then. So, one timeline is her journey. There are bandits, there's the Inquisition, you have to sleep under the stars, illnesses, all manner of obstacles.

And then, the past tense lines, the then timeline is her remembering their love, the past love, and her life. 

Carol Cram

So why did you choose to tell the story in a dual timeline? That really intrigued me. I think it worked really well, but you could have done it sequentially, right? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

I had never written a dual timeline, so this was new to me, and I knew when I sat down and said this is the book I'm going to write next, I knew two things about it. I didn't know much about the era, but I knew the book had to have a journey because that's what Cervantes’ most famous book, of course, is, this journey. And I knew that I wanted the muse to be from Barcelona. My family's originally from that area. I visit family there. And part of me said, Oh, I can go ahead and do all this research and have it tax deductible. And then I realized as I started plotting and working through that I had to get back to the idea of how they met, and how they came apart, and how they came back together.

And the only way to do this was in these more extended flashbacks. 

Carol Cram

Right. It worked really, really well. So, I just want to circle back to Cervantes. Why Cervantes? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Well, back in 10th grade, we were living in La Paz, Bolivia, and I was in Spanish 4, and I reread Spanish literature, among them Miguel Cervantes, and not just his most famous, Don Quixote. But I always start reading it in the original Spanish, which I tried and had a really hard time, so I guess I've lost some brain cells in the process.

I thought she is always the woman who stands in for Dulcinea, his muse, that he imagines, because there's really no real Dulcinea, is mostly off the page. She's never a central figure on the page where she is, like, a real scene. And of course, the way he imagines her, she's a barmaid, nothing like what he thinks she is.

And I thought one day I am going to write her story. My invented story. Well, 50 years later, I got around to it. 

Carol Cram

That’s how, especially novel writing I think, works. It takes years to sort of percolate, doesn't it? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Yeah, and a lot of it was, as I said, I didn't know much about that period, and I knew I was going to have to do a lot of research, and I really didn't have the time. I was a working mother, had a career in journalism, and even before I sat down to plan anything, I pretty much read for about a year and a half, at least a couple dozen books, so, like, five or six biographies of Cervantes, that kind of thing, so I could feel confident that I could write with some authority about that era.

Carol Cram

Yes, it's funny. I can't remember when I read Don Quixote. I did read it. And I love Spain because I go to Spain a lot. As a matter of fact, I'm going there in two months. My husband has an exhibition, he's an artist, in Santiago de Compostela. So, we're going to Spain this time. But I have been to all the places that you mentioned in the novel. I love that you went to Zaragoza because you never heard about Zaragoza. That's a really interesting place, isn't it? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Yes, it is. I mean, there's a lot that I learned even, as I said, I have family.

I see them on a semi-regular basis. But when I finished, I told my agent, my late agent, this is the last historical fiction I write because people don't realize that I figured that if I use 10 percent of the research, it was too much.

But I felt I needed that. And I know from meeting other historical fiction authors, it's the same thing, as you well know, and then getting it down, making sure that everything is as authentic and you're as true to the facts as possible is also very time-consuming. But of course, never say never and I'm back to kind of the same era, but I guess it just became fascinating.

Carol Cram

Yes, you want to get some use out of all of that research and write another one. And I wanted to talk about that, the research of the period. So, you really bring to light the late 16th century in Spain. Tell us about that period and also the constraints people lived under, because of course it was during the time of the Spanish Inquisition.

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Right, because at least half of the book is really constrained to Barcelona, and what a lot of people don't know is, there was a principality of Catalonia, and even though they belonged to Aragon and were under the much-hated Madrid, they had, and they have, their own language, different customs, they had their constitution, their fuegos, which are like their rights, and so on.

I knew all this in general, just because of family, my mother was born there, my grandparents on both sides were born and lived there, and so I knew, but I didn't know, 16th century. And even though, of course, you see the old walls when you tour. So, I really wanted to get a feel. I started with what I knew and then kind of worked on a broader level about Spain and the customs.

So, some people, for example, don't realize the kind of civil power the Inquisition had. We all know it as a religious organization, but we don't, or at least I didn't know, how women had some agency in the sense that they inherited, and it depended on the provinces and so on.

But once they went from their father to the man their parents picked for them to marry to form allegiances and alliances, and kind of that was it. And you were expected to be a good wife and mother and then live your life in this way. But I found in my research as I studied more so, most of my research was in Spanish, but I was able to find a lot of kind of primary sources in Catalan.

I can read it relatively well. When I couldn't, I would ask my cousins to help. So, I found a diary of a tanner. I found a weather log. I know, of course, the weather in Barcelona now and winter tends to be relatively temperate, even though they're on the same latitude as New York. Well, back in the 1600s, especially in the early 1600s, they went through what was called the Little Ice Age. And there were people who actually kept this information. I found these, I guess, not necessarily, it was more of a travelogue of muleteers describing the roads and the inns and what was offered.

So, it was like a wonderful source, particularly when, in talking about research, I had applied for a Fellowship to do research at the end of 2019. And I got the money in February of 2020, and was going to go in late March, early April, and we all know what happened in 2020. And I kept thinking, so I said, oh, I'm not going to let this stop me. I'm, like, doing that. I kept asking my cousins, hey, do you think I can go? And they said, oh, this is closed. That is closed. Don’t go. 

So, I know, but there's the internet and it's amazing what you can find on everything from YouTube to Google Street maps.

Carol Cram

It's amazing. So, did you go before you ended? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

I eventually did, like, a couple years ago and I'm due now to go back. And, by then I had started researching my next book, but I then went to all the places that I thought, this is what I'm modeling from memory. Where Dolça would have lived or walked or done because you visited and until you actually go with a writer's eye, it's different.

Carol Cram

You really do need to go to the place, I find. There's just something about it because it's the air you can, even though it's very different now obviously. But still your imagination goes on overdrive. So yeah, we love Google Street Maps but actually going there is amazing, isn't it?

Ana Veciana-Suarez

I think at least what I'm familiar with in Barcelona and I think also big parts of Europe, they tend to be more respectful of history. I live in Miami. I pretty much grew up in Miami. I’ve spent all my adult life in Miami, and they'll discover something from some native tribe and they just kind of build over it.

They move the artifacts, which is not what you see in Barcelona or Catalonia or anything. I grew up, of course, with all these Catalonian foods. And I then found a 15th-century cookbook and they were cooking some of those same dishes back then.

Carol Cram

I love that you said you found a muleteer’s diary of the journey. What a resource. That's, like, every writer's dream. 

I wanted to talk a little bit more about Dolça. So Dolça is an artist, and I could just have easily put the novel in the Visual Arts category actually.

So, although she's a woman, she is able to pursue her art. Why did you decide to make her a painter? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Well, I wanted to give her something that she loved to do that came naturally to her, but that she didn't pay attention to, that she basically squandered some opportunities, just took it for granted, because I thought that would serve as a contrast to Cervantes, who not only the socio-economic differences between the two of them, and the geographic differences, which were huge. We don't realize because now we take a bullet train and go to Zaragoza and all these places. And I thought this would be one. And I doubted that she could have been a woman writer. I couldn't find much of that. But, or any of that. I mean, there was a nun that I found that had done some writing.

But in painting, a lot of women were painting and painters whose names we don't really know because of course, they were relegated to obscurity because they were women. But what happened, how I decided, oh, she's going to be a painter, and this is going to be her passion. I happened to stumble on the name of a woman court painter, in I think it was Philip II's reign. And she was a court painter, which was a big, big deal. 

Carol Cram

You're talking about Sofonisba, right? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Yes, yes. 

Carol Cram

I mean, actually, I interviewed someone on the podcast who wrote a novel about Sofonisba. Because I was thinking about her as I was reading your novel.

It's really true that there were a lot of women painters, way more than we thought, right? And they are finally starting to get their due. There's a lot more exhibitions, especially in Europe, of women painters, particularly like Sofonisba. She just had one not very long ago.

So, it worked really well that Dolça was an artist, and it lets us know as a modern reader that, yes, women were painting. Women were doing things. I really enjoyed that aspect of the novel. I thought that was really smart, too, to make her have something in addition to being a wife and a mother and a rich woman and all of that.

But she had something of her own. And her relationship to her painting evolves in the novel, doesn't it, because of her relationship with Cervantes. Can you talk about that? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Yeah, because at the beginning, she would ask her father to get her a painting tutor, which is what she wanted and wanted and wanted.

And he did. Her father doted on her. The mother thought it would, as you well know, actually hurt her marriage prospects. And that would be something that a husband might not look kindly on but she didn't pursue it as she should while we all know, Cervantes was not only passionate, he was just obsessed with it and went through so much to be able to get to where he was always looking for patrons so he could continue writing. And she had this essentially given to her, so it provided another contrast.

Now, the problem was, I didn't know very much about painting. So, I do have a niece who studied art history and works at a museum, but not so much about 16th century, so she kind of guided me. So, I ended up that it was like a second load of research to do it. And I thought, oh, well they go to a store and buy the tubes of things.

And when I would read what they had to do not just to prepare the canvas, because I know how to do it, but just their colors, their palette. It really blew my mind. 

Carol Cram

It is amazing. I know because my first novel is about a painter in the 14th century, but the techniques had actually not changed all that much, although she probably would be painting in oils by that time, rather than tempera.

So, what would you say is the theme of Dulcinea? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

For me, it was really about a woman coming into her own and looking back at her life, and understanding the choices she made, realizing that maybe she should have taken some leaps of faith and didn't, so I don't want to give too much away.

But it was really about the second chances we get in life. And what we can do to seize them and not be afraid. And I think the painting also, her returning to painting, also kind of underscores that more. And I think we all get to an age in later midlife where you look back and think, if I had done this, what would have happened?

And I say to young people, I say to my children, my grandchildren, the teenagers who might understand this, I said the things I regret are the things I didn't do, not the things I did. But the things I didn't do, the opportunities I was afraid to take, the risks I was afraid to take, and I think this is really what the book is about.

And maybe I couldn't have written that book any earlier. Maybe it had to wait for that time. 

Carol Cram

Well, your own life kind of bears that out because it's a second chance to have a new career. Because you, like myself, you've come to writing novels later in your career or after your main career was over, which is not unusual.

That's a very common theme, I find, and I think, as we said earlier, it takes decades to do this, to become a writer.

Ana Veciana-Suarez

But you're learning. People say, well how to write, but no, I wrote on deadline, had feedback, if not daily, at least within two days of anything.

It's a very short form. Even when I was doing what we call in journalism, longer form of 1500 or 2000, but that's not even a chapter. 

Carol Cram

That's like a day's work. Yeah, well maybe. Not for me. No, I know it's a very different type of writing. I wrote textbooks for decades. And you'd think that would prepare me for writing novels, but not particularly.

I think what does prepare us with your journalism and the work I did is the idea of actually working, you’re used to working, you're used to writing every day and you're not waiting for inspiration. Right? And I think that's really valuable. 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

I keep pretty much the same hours that I did, and I still do freelance a couple times a week and that'll vary. It’s either feast or famine, but it's the sitting down and sometimes I don't want to do it. Sometimes I'm thinking, well, I probably should, like, do the wash or I know somebody's in town and everybody's going out and you have to have that self-discipline that I think working at something else teaches you because you're your own boss as a writer. 

Carol Cram

Absolutely. So, would you like to do a short reading for us from Dulcinea?

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Sure. I figured I'd start at the beginning. Which is the prologue, so: 

It's the 29th of April 1616 Madrid, in which I am where I should be at last.

Much has been said about me, much written, and most of it such slanderous tripe. Lies. Deceits, falsehoods, a deflowering of the truth, Of all the woes visited upon me by God and perhaps the devil himself, having my reputation besmirched has been, if not the most painful or long lasting, certainly one of the most confounding.

I've done nothing to deserve this calumny, except to love a man who isn't my husband and never can be. A man who belongs to another. I loved him before the bittersweet elixir of fame, before I danced my first sardana, or prepared my first palette with paint. And I've loved him as steadily as El Llobregat flows through the Mediterranean, and as predictably as the budding of the king's trees in spring.

This is why my carriage has stopped in front of an unfamiliar building in a strange city, in a strange street, in a city foreign to me, I cannot move my feet, and my arms hang limply at my sides. Only my hammering heart is awake. However, I must rouse myself if I am to accomplish my mission. A secret release will lighten the heaviness of heart that has beset me so.

Calle de León, the driver announces. Though small, the house possesses a respectable air, and this surprises me. Miguel has always lamented his financial situation. Yet the green shutters appear freshly painted and red geraniums fill the window boxes. Rose bushes bloom in a side garden. Suddenly, I'm startled by the neighing of a horse at the carriage window.

Haume has dismounted and appears eager to get on with the task at hand. He is accustomed to assuming control, and proof of this is how well he oversees my late husband's affairs. 

“Is this the address?” he asks. 

“I've never been here, but if it matches what I gave you.”

“It doesn't look like anyone's home.” He eyes the property as if sizing up an unwanted purchase.

“A dying man wouldn't be left alone.”

“Very well, who should I ask for?”

I hesitate, dread squeezing my throat, but manage to reply. “I don't know anyone in the household except Miguel.”

“And who shall I say has come calling?”

“Me. Who else?”

“Are you sure?” he asks, doubt creasing his brow. 

“Yes, most definitely.”

After all, he has escorted me here only after a considerable number of threats and simpering on my part. Though I originally intended to keep my journey from him, as he would have forbidden it in his high-handed way, I will concede that his presence has afforded me comfort these past days.

“But there may be some objection?” I finished for him. “I understand, but there's not much I can do about that now. Just go ahead and tell the maid.”

So, I figured I'd end there, and it goes on. 

Carol Cram

No, that's perfect. And I really enjoyed hearing that because, of course, I just finished the novel not very long ago. So, no spoilers, but when you read the prologue, I go, Oh, okay. It kind of took me back to how the whole novel unfolds. So that's great. Thank you so much. 

One of my goals with The Art In Fiction podcast is to inspire other authors. What's one thing you've learned from writing your novels that you didn't know before? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

I think there's so many things if we are going to go in art was the fact that women painters, and there was a good number of them, had worked, had learned, had apprenticed among famous, masters, and had produced incredible work.

And that we lost them in history. And in some cases, I read about there were men who took credit for these things. So, to me, that was because I, in my own way, only truly thought, especially in that era, that it was men because those were the painters I knew, those were the painters I had studied or heard about, were men.

So that was very eye-opening to me. And then another thing I learned, and I think this was in general in Europe, but especially in Spain, how much the Catholic Church controlled the subject matter, I would say, and the themes  of painters and the way to survive was, of course, you could have your wealthy patrons, but was to get commissions from a diocese here, a cathedral from there, which is so different from now and I had never thought of that before even though I visited tons of churches And of course, they've had those triptychs and they're all over everywhere, but I never connected those things. And then on a personal level I've never really thought that much about my heritage and of Catalonia.

So, and it's on both sides of the family. And I just took a lot of things for granted. But then when I started researching, I realized how the foods I would eat on holidays were foods that have been around for centuries. The customs, all these things, that gave me a special tie to where my people were from.

You know, I wasn't born in Spain, I was born in Cuba, came here, so my family lived three generations in three different countries, spoke three different languages and now I'm kind of reconnecting. And in more than, oh, let's go visit the cousins or let's go visit this, but what hundreds of years and how many dozens of generations live there? So that to me was kind of a personal bonus. 

Carol Cram

Isn't it wonderful as historical novelists that we can do that? Like my most recent novel that I'm working on right now is based on my own heritage in Yorkshire. So yeah, we can explore all that. It's great fun. 

So, can you share with us what you're working on now?

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Well, I had told my agent at the time, my late agent, that this was the last of the historical novels and I had two or three different ideas cooking up and I like to be working on something all the time, even if it's just sitting there, percolating. And there was this one idea that kept popping back for a very unusual reason, and while I was doing the research for Dulcinea, I'd go down these rabbit holes that I would look up. I'm sure, Carol, you would understand, and I'm like, oh my god, I've lost all this time, and one of them, I had found a thesis I'm pretty sure it was from Ohio State and it had caught my eye, because it was about Catalonia and it was during this little known war of secession from Spain is in Madrid and of course, Catalonia has been doing that they just did that some years ago they try to do an independence movement. So, it's not new, it's been going on for centuries. But what caught me was essentially what this graduate student was postulating was that this little-known war of secession was the first war that used modern journalism in the form of pamphlets and broadsheets and newsletters to sway the populace to. They were those days’ influencers. And the more I read about it, I was saying, because as a journalist I go, wow, this is incredible.

And then I read more, I would backtrack and go and look and research. So, my next novel takes place during essentially about a two-and-a-half-year period of this very long war. And it's fascinating. I got to go back to Spain using the grant money that I couldn’t use for Dulcinea. 

Carol Cram

What is the period in history? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Well, so this war gave voice to what is now the National Anthem of Catalonia. And what happened, it was a war within the War of Spain against France. 

Carol Cram

What are the dates? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

It was 1639 through 1659. So, the war I take, because it's really more about when they try to secede and for various reasons. that lend themselves to a narrative, it's between 1639 to 1641.

Carol Cram

Wow, that's interesting. I knew nothing about that period. So that's going to be fun. Are you almost finished that? 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. I always say I hope Jeopardy one day has 17th century Spain and I'm going to apply and go there and I'm going to be like Ken Jennings and win it all.

Carol Cram

Well, thank you so much, Ana, for talking with me today. I've really enjoyed it. 

Ana Veciana-Suarez

Thank you. It's been a pleasure. I'm delighted to be finally on this podcast. I hope to see you in Las Vegas. 

Carol Cram

Yes, I will definitely see you there for the Historical Novel Conference in Vegas.

I've been speaking with Ana Veciana-Suarez, author of Dulcinea, listed in the Literature category on Art in Fiction, at www.artinfiction. com. 

Be sure to check the show notes for a link to Ana's website at www. anavecianasuarez. com. If you are enjoying The Art In Fiction Podcast, please help us keep the lights on by making a donation to the Ko Fi website at ko fi.com/artinfiction. Also, please follow Art In Fiction on Facebook and Instagram. And don't forget to give The Art In Fiction Podcast a positive review or rating wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks so much for listening.